Live Like the World is Dying—S1E85
This Month in the Apocalypse: August 2023
Episode Summary
This time on This Month in the Apocalypse, Brooke, Margaret, and Inmn talk about everything that happened in August, from the apocalyptic weather, to the wild fires in Lahaina, to some recent and incredibly tragic queerphobic violence. But also there’s some hope.
Host Info
Brooke can be found on Twitter or Mastodon @ogemakweBrooke. Inmn can be found on Instagram @shadowtail.artificery. Margaret can be found on twitter @magpiekilljoy or instagram at @margaretkilljoy.
Publisher Info
This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness. You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness.
Transcript
Brooke 00:15
Hello and welcome to This Month in the...Aw, damn...I mean Live Like the World is Dying is what we're doing. But it's This Month in the Apocalypse.
Margaret 00:25
Where you have to use that...You promised you would do it in the movie Preview voice.
Brooke 00:31
Oh, right. Okay, let me start over then.
Margaret 00:33
No, just just that This Month in the Apocalypse line.
Brooke 00:35
Oh, gotcha. Okay, well let me try this. Welcome to Live Like the World is Dying, your podcast for what feels like the end times, and this is our monthly edition of This Month in the Apocalypse. [In a playful and light voice] How's that?
Margaret 00:51
C+
Brooke 00:54
Okay, I'll work on it.
Margaret 00:56
This month and the apocalypse. [Said in a deep, gritty voice]
Brooke 00:59
Oh, that's much better. Yeah, okay. Do that one. This Month in the Apocalypse. [grittier and darker]
Margaret
There we go. B-.
Brooke
I don’t take it seriously enough. Okay. Okay. Yours was A+, Magpie.
Margaret 01:11
I'll give myself an A-.
Brooke 01:15
I'm Brooke. I'm one of your co-hosts for this month's This Month episode. And I have with me:
Margaret 01:25
Hi, I'm Margaret.
Inmn 01:27
Hi. I'm Inmn.
Brooke 01:28
Yay. But before we get into the news, we're going to give a little shout out to one of the other lovely podcasts on our podcast network, Channel Zero. And here they are. Doo doo doo doo doo doo, doo doo doo. Doo doo. [saying the words like a song melody]
Brooke 02:26
Welcome back to This Month in the Apocalypse. That was a lovely jingle from one of our friends. Today we're going to talk about lots of fun things including apocalyptic weather and people being...
Margaret 02:37
Hate crimes.
Brooke 02:39
Hate crimes. I was gonna say, "People being mean." Hate crimes is better. And other fun and wonderful things.
Margaret 02:48
Well, the weather's been really nice everywhere, right? [Dryly]
Brooke 02:54
No, no, it hasn't. We ended our episode last month. That would have been the recap of July, 2023's news events talking about historic heat waves. We talked about Phoenix and everything melting there. And we talked about the heatwave in Europe firing up again this summer and wildfires in Greece. And I think we talked about some other weather things too. And surprise, surprise, they continued on into the month of August.
Inmn 03:31
Can I just post an addition to our "Phoenix was really hot. What the hell episode?"
Brooke 03:40
Please.
Inmn 03:42
Which, is that I later learned--like later that day--that there were a lot of reports of people going to the hospital from falling and getting burned by the concrete badly enough that they had to go to the hospital. And this was not like an isolated situation. This was a widespread thing that happened, was that the concrete was so hot that people had to...were getting burned badly enough to seek treatment.
Margaret 04:13
Do you think that when they named the city of Phoenix, they were like, let's just name this after a thing that's on fire and then hope for the best?
Inmn 04:24
Yeah, probably. That's probably what they thought.
Margaret 04:28
Cool.
Brooke 04:30
But it rises from its ashes? It lives on like the city does forever and ever. [Said incredulously] Okay. Okay. Well, we'll come back to the hot stuff, but let's do the cold stuff. I've got stuff about some glaciers and some hurricanes and some wildfires. You might even say that my subjects are a tale of fire and ice
Margaret 04:53
[Chuckles] Well done.
Brooke 04:56
On the ice part, glaciers are melting. We've talked about this before. And of course, the process of glaciers melting is somewhat natural, right, like glaciers naturally melt a little bit and then get sort of restocked with fresh snow, which then melts and that fresh glacial water provides fresh water to a lot of people in the world. In fact, about 2 billion people in the world's population get their fresh water from melting glaciers. So about a quarter of the world's population relies on fresh glacial water. And even if we globally meet any of our most ambitious climate targets, the world is still going to lose about half of its glaciers by the end of the century. And, spoiler alert, we're not meeting any kind of climate targets. So it's probably gonna be worse than that. So, yay, drought. Wait, no, no. Droughts are bad. [Margaret fake cheers] Ha. Okay, so glaciers melting right now...
Margaret 06:00
If we pretend like we're accelerationists, this whole thing will be so much more fun.
Brooke 06:04
Hey, let's do that for this episode so I don't cry when I log off.
Margaret 06:08
We're so excited about the end of all the...No, I actually don't know if I can do that with a straight face.
Brooke 06:13
I'll just revert back into my time as a Mormon person in which the end of the world was okay because it was predicted to happen. And that means Jesus is coming. And so we're fine with climate change and all of those things...[Joking]
Inmn 06:28
Well, I'm just saying that if the Gulf...if the Gulf streams stop then, you know, Arizona, where I live, which we all thought was going to be, you know, taken out by heat and drought, will be a lot more reasonable. And by that I mean, one of the only habitable places...
Margaret 06:48
Inmn and I have been arguing about Inmn's choice of where to live, which makes me the villain. If anytime you're arguing against someone about their choice of where to live, you are the villain. And one of the core parts of this is that Inmn is fully aware of certain models that predict more rainfall and more cold coming to Arizona. Everyone should move to Phoenix. That's our advice.
Brooke 07:11
Well, as soon as they said that, I was like "That's why. That's why Inmn lives in Phoenix. I see. Okay. That's how that threat model worked out. I understand now. Finally." Okay. We're gonna leave the US, though, and talk about Germany. And well, actually, we're talking about the Swiss German Alps. The mountain range.
Margaret 07:34
That's Switzerland.
Brooke 07:36
Yes, well, they border.
Margaret 07:38
Okay, I'm being a pedant about something I'm not right about. Please continue.
Brooke 07:43
Cool. So one of the things that melting glaciers have led to is revealing things that have gone missing. Like hikers. For instance, this month, the remains of a German alpinist, who went missing in the mid 1980s was discovered. Sorry, not this month. It was late July that the person was discovered. In calendar year 2022, the Swiss Alps lost 6% of their volume, which is the highest amount lost in a single year on record and double the previous record high, which was set about 20 years ago, 2023. And of course, we don't have all of 20--Excuse me. Sorry. 2023 was when the previous high record was set. We don't have all of the 2023 data yet. So we don't know how much they've lost this year. But, last year was the highest on record. And there were other things that they uncovered last year as the glaciers continued to melt that we will probably see things this year. For instance, it melts...In some places it melted all the way down to rock that hadn't been revealed in millennia. So showing some bare patches. And last year, they even discovered, in addition to missing hikers, they discovered a lost airplane because of the melting. Yeah.
Margaret 09:02
This is like the one thing that I'm like...Like all the lakes that are drying up in the American West and they're like finding people that bootleggers had thrown into barrels and then like dropped into the lake or whatever. You know, I'm like, that's cool.
Brooke 09:18
This is the glacial equivalent of it now. So, these are people who willingly went into the snowy mountains.
Margaret 09:25
That's true.
Brooke 09:26
Well, maybe not the airplane. The airplane probably didn't mean to crash into the mountain but the hikers...
Margaret 09:31
Maybe the pilot was having a bad day.
Brooke 09:32
And there's also parts of Siberia with glacial melt that have revealed...one of the things I saw was, it was a not quite a worm, not a tapeworm, a type of worm, discovered in the...after the glacial melt that hadn't been seen...or dated back to, I'm sorry, like 6000 years ago. And scientists are trying to figure out if they can extract the DNA and try and revive it. Which, it doesn't sound like the beginning of a bad movie at all.
Margaret 10:09
No, I'm really excited about the existential horror that can come from all of this.
Brooke 10:18
Europe and Russia are not the only places with glaciers that are melting. They're also melting in Alaska. Overwhelming glacial melt caused a dam to break, which sent a river of ice water through parts of Juno. [Said like Jew-new] Is that how you say the capital of Alaska? Juno? [Jew-new]
Margaret 10:36
I dunno. I'm not a big Alaska knower.
Brooke 10:39
Sorry. Sorry to our Alaskan listeners. If I've mispronounced that, please teach me. I would like to do better. The height of the water in the lake was 25% higher than the previous record high, which was set in 2016. And that's what caused it. It wasn't just overflowing, but it broke the dam, which took out multiple structures including houses and just sent this massive, fast moving, churning, deep river of ice through the town and it pulled out trees, and all kinds of trash and debris was floating along.
Margaret 11:15
Jesus.
Brooke 11:16
Yeah, it was really gross. And I want to talk more about that in a second. But, I want to talk about hurricanes and flooding because of those as well. And then I want to talk about, if you're willing to go into what you should do in case of a flood really briefly, which we've covered before, but it'd be nice to recap. But, let's talk about hurricanes because they cause flooding too. So as we were recording this, we're just on the tail end of hurricane Hilary, which touched down in the Baja Peninsula in Mexico. And when it hit landfall, it leveled down to just a tropical storm. And that's a measure of...I think the major cyclone dissipated. There were still really heavy winds and a lot of rain, though. So it was a severe tropical storm. It traveled north up through Tijuana and San Diego. It skirted Los Angeles and continued into Nevada, affecting areas as far over as Los Angeles. When it touched down on land, it had like an 80 mile impact range, which narrowed as it continued north. Thankfully, we've only had one recorded death so far because of the hurricane, which was one person in Mexico when their car was flooded. But otherwise, there hasn't been anyone who has died in Mexico or the US that we know of yet. But the storm did break records all over the place. Tropical storms in California are generally pretty rare. I know for folks on the east coast, southern east coast, are more used to hurricanes and that kind of tropical storm weather, but it's really uncommon in California. And I'm unclear on just how historic the storm was. Because, one record said that California hadn't seen a tropical storm since the 70s. And another one said that it hadn't seen one since the 30s. So I think this one's definitely more severe than what they saw in the 70s, but maybe not the...
Margaret 13:20
Yeah, I could see it...I could see a place being like "It's the worst since the 30s," gets turned into "It's the only one since the 30s." And maybe there was one in the 70s that wasn't as severe. Yeah.
Brooke 13:30
Yeah. And from like, reliable news sources. So it was really unclear. I didn't have time to go look at the federal data or anything, but it's severe. There were historic amounts of rainfall. The wettest day on record, for instance, for Palm Springs, and San Diego, and downtown LA. San Bernardino saw 13.5 inches of rainfall in a little over a day. So that's more than a foot. Yeah.
Margaret 13:57
And just to be clear, like anyone who isn't aware of...Some of us lived in a place that flooded a lot a couple years ago. And floods would get triggered by two inches of rainfall. Like, flooding...Like an inch of rain doesn't seem like that much, right? You're like, "Oh, that's like not even up to the top of my toes or something," right? But yeah, like there's a disproportionate impact from heavy rain quickly that can happen and cause all kinds of flooding and mudslides and things.
Inmn 14:32
Yeah. And to...Yeah, just to put that into perspective, more. We talked about this on another episode, but I hadn't really done the math yet. Like, I think that 13 inches over like two days might be a new record in the United States. Like, I think Kentucky set the record, like earlier this year for 13 something inches of rain and it's like the most rain that's ever fallen in a one or two day period. And to put that in perspective, like that over, you know, 10,000 square miles, which is not as much as it seems, is Lake Michigan. That is a Lake Michigan amount of water falling on a very small area.
Brooke 15:23
I remember you talking about that because I remember the Lake Michigan allegory.
Margaret 15:29
Does that mean there's sea monsters in the rain?
Inmn 15:33
Yes.
Margaret 15:34
That's cool.
Inmn 15:35
And all we have to do is find them and make them our friends.
Margaret 15:39
Excellent. I can't believe everyone's like worried. There's just gonna...Only cool stuff is gonna come with this. We all get free Mad Max mobiles. It's gonna be fun.
Brooke 15:51
Yeah, I mean, everyone's been complaining about drought in the southwestern United States, but parts of Nevada had six inches of rain in 24 hours. It's fun to measure it...
Margaret 16:01
Can I talk about...
Brooke 16:01
Oh, go ahead.
Margaret 16:03
I was gonna say, they talked about global warming. But there wasn't a river of ice going through the Capitol...or a town in Alaska. Like, that doesn't sound like global warming...I am so afraid someone is going to think I'm telling the truth here. I'm being entirely facetious.
Brooke 16:21
I think the people know you by now and where do you stand on this, Margaret.
Margaret 16:23
I hope so.
Inmn 16:26
Oh, sorry. I'm just fact checking myself. The state of Vermont is only 9,200 square miles. So Lake Michigan falling on something about the size of Vermont, which it basically did during the Vermont flood.
Margaret 16:40
Cool.
Brooke 16:41
That's dope. Okay, well, Nevada's six inches don't seem that impressive. anymore. Although there were parts of the desert in California and Nevada that have no recorded rainfall. No, history of recorded rainfall. They got rain for the first time that we know of. So, that's fun. Some parts of California got half of the year's worth of rain in one day. So, however much falls in an entire year, fell in 24...or half of that fell in just 24 hours. Flash floods have diminished as of this recording, but the areas will be at risk for mudslides and landslides for quite a while. And by the way, just for fun, the city of Ojai, outside of LA, had a 5.1 magnitude earthquake. It wasn't just Ojai. It was kind of the whole area. It was felt in LA too. So literally at the same time as the tropical storm was passing through, there was a 5.1 earthquake.
Margaret 17:41
You know that...Like, you grow up and you hear about the biblical flood and then you hear that like, "No, it's gonna be the fire next time." And then people are always like, "Ah, see it's like the fire, the forest fire." No, it's just gonna be both. It's just gonna be a like "why-not-both?" dot GIF
Brooke 18:00
For sure.
Margaret 18:02
There's gonna be like burning floods. And, I mean, I guess that actually has happened numerous times in the United States. But, anyway.
Brooke 18:08
Burning floods?
Margaret 18:10
Well, usually like rivers of fire because of pollutants that catch fire. This is more of a 19th century thing. We've gotten better at hiding some aspects of our pollution since then. Anyway, sorry.
Brooke 18:24
Margaret's writing a book in her head right now. Rivers a fire. Yeah, we talked about what to do in flood conditions before, but I think it's worth recapping, especially since we're just getting into hurricane season for the areas that have that as a problem. And, I know we talked about how one of the most important things is to stay out of the water. And there's a lot of reasons to do that, right? I mean, part of it's that it's filthy, and not just like, "Oh my gosh, it's dirty," but like genuinely toxic. Filthy. Cause severe health hazards. And then there's also, if I remember correctly, dangers in the water, like stuff that's broken loose, you might not be able to see that is flowing through that could hit you.
Margaret 19:08
One time when I was in a flood when I shouldn't have been, because we were trying to like clear up some blockages--don't do anything that I'm describing having done. It is like pure coincidence that all of us survived being as dumb as we were when we did this. I pulled a hypodermic needle out of the floodwaters. And this is like, rural ass western North Carolina. Like there's not a city up river, or up creek, from where we were. Like, there's gonna be nasty shit in that water and then also like weird random large objects. And then of course, any moving water. Any moving water comes very quickly. A lot of people overestimate--sorry, maybe this is what you're about to get into. I'll just finish this.
Brooke 19:53
No, I want you to talk about this.
Margaret 19:56
A lot of people overestimate the ability of their vehicles to drive through water. You will be shocked, absolutely shocked, to know that the kinds of people who tend to overestimate their vehicle's ability to move through the water are people with large American pickup trucks. I don't mean American like Ford's versus Toyota. I just mean the style of like giant truck that Americans have. That is not what allows you to drive through water. And yes, there are specific off-road configurations of vehicles that you can use that are more specifically designed for driving through water. They are not...Even those are not designed to drive through floodwater, which is a very variable level of water. Those are designed to ford creeks and rivers and shit. Overall, people trying to drive through floodwaters is one of the main causes of death in floods. A lot of people think that they're going to help, but one of the first rules of disaster response, much like one of the first rules of like crisis first aid and care-under-fire situations, like if you're in a war or...in America and people are shooting, then you don't want to make a new casualty. That is one of the most important things. And so, untrained people trying to go into floods to rescue people, thinking, "I have a big old pickup truck. I can save the day." are very often going to cause more problems than they solve. This isn't to say that there aren't ways to help. That isn't to say there aren't ways to get into these places. But, it's the kind of thing you need to like study, you need to know about. There's a reason that people fly small aircraft into flooded areas instead of driving. Okay, sorry for that rant. Please continue with...
Brooke 21:42
No, actually that's exactly what I wanted. I was gonna say, "Margaret, you know the most about this. Remind us."
Inmn 21:50
It takes only 12 inches. Sorry, it takes only 12 inches of moving water to float almost any car. Any car that is not designed to be driven through flood waters can be floated in under a foot of water.
Brooke 22:12
You know, one of the videos I saw out of the rains and floods in California was someone whose SUV was floating. And they were like, pushing it in the water because it was floating along. It was...Mind blown. A little bit.
Margaret 22:31
And then also, for dealing with floods, one of the main things that comes up is: don't go hide in your attic. As the waters rise, get on your roof instead of into your attic. You don't want to get trapped in your attic. There are places where floods are really common where like--this is sort of apocryphal or I read it in a book about disaster--there's like places where it might be common for people to keep axes in their attic, so that like, worst case scenario, they can like chop their way free. This seems like a big elaborate...Just get on your roof. It's safer than being in your attic. Yeah.
Brooke 23:09
Yeah, for sure. Thank you for the safety reminders of the floods. And I know we talked about this, I think last year maybe when there was some flooding, that there's people who have never experienced flood conditions that were experiencing it for the first time and doing some dangerous and kind of silly things but that maybe don't seem silly if you're not used to dealing with floods. So...
Margaret 23:35
Like the people shooting Tik Tok videos of like floating around on pool floaties and floodwater? I gotta admit, there's a part of me that's like I can't actually shame someone for just being like, "Fuck it. I'm gonna go have fun." It's dumb. It is a bad idea. You shouldn't do it.
Brooke 23:58
I mean, in all seriousness, I could see myself, if I had like a unicorn pool floaty thing, being that person who was riding the unicorn pool floaty cuz fuck everything.
Inmn 24:11
Yeah, yeah. I grew up in a hurricane-heavy place, and there are some things that I'm currently like flicking through my mind that I did as a kid that I'm just like, "How did I not die?"
Brooke 24:32
How indeed.
Margaret 24:34
I'm glad you didn't.
Brooke 24:37
Alright, let me do one last bit of weathery things here and then I'll toss to Inmn to talk about it in more detail. But, speaking of hurricanes still, hurricane Dora helped to cause the severity of the wildfires in Maui. And I feel like everyone knows about this, but I was literally in a store at the end of last week and the checkout person was talking to the customer. And the customer hadn't heard about...or, no. Sorry, the checkout person hadn't heard about it...It doesn't matter which one. One of them hadn't heard about the fires in Maui. And the other one was like explaining to them what had happened. And I was like, okay, people maybe haven't heard about this. Anyway, first of all, the Hawaiian Islands are struggling with drought conditions right now and have been for a while. There were brush fires that erupted in Maui early in August, and some of them sort of on the north...It's the west coast, but it's the northern western coast because Maui has this kind of funny shape to it. Sticks out over there. Outside the city of Lahaina, which is a very historic city for Hawaii. It used to be the capitol back when Hawaii was ruled by a king and queen that had unified the islands. That was a capital place.
Margaret 26:05
When it was ruled by Hawaii instead of the United States?
Brooke 26:08
Yes. The fucking people who it belongs to and should get it back. Yes. So that city basically burned down overnight. There were people who got notice to leave and got their things together within maybe half an hour and got out of there. And then, within an hour later, everything was gone, just completely burned down. And part of the reason that became so severe is because there was a hurricane that was quite a bit south of the islands, but hurricane Dora still had enough wind power that it was fanning the winds and the flames in Hawaii and helping oxygenate those fires. So, they grew really big and moved really quickly. There's more wildfires on the West Coast because it's wildfire season, but I think Inmn, you maybe had some more details on the Lahaina fire.
Inmn 27:06
Yeah, yeah, I was trying to dig, you know, more into just like...because there was a lot of stuff with the Lahaina fire that when I was hearing about it initially, it was these, like, incredibly, incredibly alarming things. And one of the big things that the state is saying is that like, there was little to no warning. This is like a tagline that's being used. And it's like, part of that is true because the fire that destroyed Lahaina, and the fire that probably killed most of the people who died, happened incredibly quickly. But there were fires all day leading up to it in different parts of Lahaina and like started with a brush fire at like three o'clock in the morning, like, you know, not in Lahaina but near it. And then there was another fire caused by downed power lines, kind of like closer to Lahaina. And that fire was contained. And then, and this is from like 3am to like morning, there's just fires. and then later in the morning, there was a brush fire like in Lahaina and they claim to have contained the fire 100% within like a couple of hours. And then either that fire restarted, or another fire started, and this is the fire that ended up consuming most of Lahaina. And so, like there was an entire day of fires happening around Lahaina before this like big fire. And so it's, you know, obviously I wasn't there. I don't know what was happening. But, this narrative that there was like little to no warning becomes like a little bit complicated by the fact that there were fires like all day prior to that. But my--and this is, you know, a projection. This is conjecture, but like I think that part of that is that we live in a time when like disaster is so rampant that like small disasters, we write off. So like yeah, a brush fire down the road, we don't think about it. We're like the authorities will contain it. We have this idea that these like small instances can be contained by the infrastructure that the government has built and it absolutely can't. And so that because...Yeah, there's like other reports of the National Weather Service saying there is an incredibly high risk of fire for specifically this place, like in the days leading up to it. And so just there like...It seems like that very little preparation was done and authorities admit to having evacuation plans, sort of, but nothing that was in place for like, getting an entire town of people out of that town.
Margaret 30:42
I think that one of the things about like the fire-danger-high thing, is that I think most of the time, these smaller things are successfully contained. That does not mean that they won't not be and, but it's like, I drive, you know, every day. I live in the woods and I drive past a sign that's like the fire danger today. And it's settings are like, it starts at medium. You know? It's like, medium, high, extreme, to everyone's on fire, while you're reading this. I don't know. I don't remember the actual categories. But like, it's never at medium, it's always at high. Right? And then if it goes up higher than high, people suddenly notice this. I don't think this is the fault of my local fire department. I think that this is like they're actually trying to convey that you live in the woods. You should always be ready. But, I wonder whether it's creating this situation where people are like, "Oh, that's always high. Whatever, there's a brush fire. There's always a brush fire," like, you know, even like in the Pacific Northwest, like in fire land, you know, I think people are just like, "Oh, there's always fires," at this point. Right? It's become the new normal.
Brooke 31:51
That's exactly what I was gonna say. Because we have these...When you drive around and you go to the forest areas, they have those signs that have the little indicator bar and the color changer and in the summer, it's always set to high. And, fires are like, "Yeah, it's wildfire season." Like, that's just what it is now.
Inmn 32:10
Yeah. Some metaphor about the frog in the pot.
Margaret 32:14
Yeah, totally.
Inmn 32:17
I have a little more to say about the fire. But uh, so um you know, the fire that destroyed Lahaina was moving at a terrifying rate. It was moving a mile a minute. Like, that's how fast the fire was moving. The entire town was destroyed in less than an hour. And so it's not that there weren't like evacuation things suggested for people. There were. People were advised to evacuate to some degree. One other thing that happened is that the downed power lines also brought down cell towers and a lot of fiber optic cables got destroyed. And so like, there was absolutely no cell coverage in Lahaina during these events. And so like the only ways that people were communicating were hotel resorts that have satellite phones. So like, there's like large parts of the rest of Hawaii that had no idea that there was a fire going on in Lahaina because of extreme breakdowns in communication infrastructure and there being very few people who actually had satellite phones. And yeah, so that's kind of the situation of the fire. But, just as you know, a fun historical note, we talked about drought and we talked about hurricane conditions being big causes for this fire. And another big cause of this fire is colonialism. A lot of the grasses in Maui is this like guinea grass that was an imported grass by, you know, Europeans at the time, and it was brought over to graze cattle on and also for ornamentation. And, it was brought over by sugar barons and like pineapple barons. And so like there's this invasive grass that can grow 10 feet tall and is highly flammable and like can sustain fires up to 20 feet high. And this is in comparison to the native grass which is relatively fire intolerant and only grows like two feet high. So, the conditions for a fire like this have been brewing for an incredibly long time. And now that Lahaina is, you know, it's...the town's completely, almost completely destroyed, there are still reports of, you know, like hundreds of people are still missing. And I think like at this point, less than half of the, the wreckage of the town has been explored. And so they're like...the death toll is like in the hundreds right now and is expected to get higher, you know, basically every day until all of the...
Margaret 35:43
I have the most recent numbers in front of me. They're down from...The missing persons names...It used to be...This is 19 hours ago, as we record. The most recent I could find, the current death toll is 115 people with 850 people still unaccounted for. And the only positive thing is that, like, it used to be 2000 people unaccounted for, and most of the unaccounted people are being accounted for as alive. Like, so far it's been 1285 individuals have been accounted for off of that list. Yeah, this is still obviously one of the worst things--I'm not trying to downplay it at all. It's fucking massive. This is way...It's just awful. I'm just...I'm happy for the 1200 people. And I'm not happy...Well, I don't know how to say this. Yeah, it's all bad.
Inmn 36:47
Yeah, and, like part of the thing that's really terrifying about some of, how some of the deaths happened, and I think this is a thing for people to think about as they determine...like, come up with evacuation plans, is a lot of...so pretty large amounts of people who died were either like just in their yard and the fire just swept over them or there's also reports of a lot of people who died fleeing, and they died in their cars, stuck in traffic, trying to escape Lahaina as it burned behind them. And a lot of the...and there's reports of hundreds of people like fleeing into the ocean from, like, from their cars and their houses.
Brooke 37:37
Yeah, there were a lot of ocean rescues. There was one couple that was--this is a positive story that I want to interject, if I may--that was, they were tourists in the area and their rental car, I think caught fire when they were trying to escape, so they got out of the car and just started running. And a local family that was driving through, stops and crammed them into the backseat like sitting on top of their laps and stuff and drove off with them. And it's the only reason they survived is that that other family was willing to stop and scoop them up.
Inmn 38:11
Yeah. And my last little thing about the Lahaina fire--sorry, this is a long dive, but there's a lot. So, in the wake of the fire there...Like, local communities, that are largely made up of indigenous people to that island, are facing land grabs from both the State and from private investors. And there's stories of people getting calls about from like, you know, overseas private investors who are trying to buy up their properties. And then the State, on the other hand, is trying to also acquire that land for, "Workforce housing," or to make it into...there's a couple like suggestions, like the governor's, like, "Workforce housing or open spaces to make it a memorial." But none of the options being discussed by private investors or the State is like, returning people to their to homes. You know, obviously those people's homes don't exist anymore, but like...or, the houses don't, but like their home still does exist. And that is that place. And that is not on the table to return it to the people who live there.
Brooke 39:31
Great, so giving the land back is not an option. Hmm.
Inmn 39:35
Yeah. That's all I have to say about Lahaina is, "Yes, it was terrible."
Margaret 39:42
I got a few more climate things to talk about. Although, I guess I want to say...No, I'll do the climate things and then I'll do this little mini rant. Okay, so the heatwave in southern France has shut down nuclear power plants because the water used to cool the plant is too hot to be used to cool the plant. I'm glad that they are aware of that and turned down...turned off the reactors rather than, you know, having a meltdown. But this is the kind of like consequence that tends not to get thought about, right? 2023 is on track to be the most expensive year for maintaining power infrastructure in the United States for thunderstorms. I haven't really thought about thunderstorms, Like, thunderstorms are the thing that happen around me the most, right? But we tend not to think about them as like major crises. But they have been devastating power infrastructure across the country. This is on track to be the most expensive year to maintain power infrastructure. Some of the stuff that actually Inmn brought up about on Maui, it's like other countries bury their power lines. It's more expensive, and it's like, the US has less dense of a population over all, right? I understand why people make these decisions to have raised power lines. But, it is a infrastructural decision that has consequences. And let's see. Two fifths of the world's population currently live in areas with high water stress, according to a Washington Post investigation into this, lots of like maps and shit you can look sadly about where you live or whatever. And high water stress means a combination of like water suddenly not being as available, as well as water usage. So there's a lot of places that are not high water stress that are arid, because a lot of people don't live there, or there's not a lot of industry, or there's not a lot of agriculture there, right? But the places with high population densities that are having high water stress are of particular note. We should be paying attention to them. We should be thinking about how to help them. We should be thinking about it as relates to ourselves, whether we live in these areas. South Asia is in particular trouble. I would go ahead and say from a climate change point of view for the most number of people affected, the Indian subcontinent is in trouble. Just frankly. It is in trouble from massive heat waves. It is in trouble from water stress. It is in trouble for an awful lot of things. And it is one of the most densely populated parts of this world. South Asia is particularly trouble, also Spain, Italy, Turkey, Iran, Southern California, Southern Arizona, and then a lot of places actually in the American Midwest like Nebraska and stuff like this. And it, again, there's like other places that are also in a lot of trouble but tend not to be as high population density. I mean, I'm not reading the whole list. It's just a thing worth checking out. It's a thing worth thinking about. These tend to be places where more water has been imported than locally produced in a way that is unlikely to be sustainable. We're getting more and more situations, for example, where water is being trucked into places. And obviously it takes a lot of physical infrastructure to truck water places. Water is notoriously heavy.
Brooke 43:05
Seven pounds per gallon.
Margaret 43:08
What's that?
Brooke 43:09
Roughly seven pounds per gallon?
Margaret 43:11
Okay, I thought you were saying, "Seven miles per gallon." I was like, I guess that's probably what the trucks that carry water get. And...That's like what a school bus gets. A school bus might get nine. Anyway. It depends on if it's diesel. The wildfires in Canada continue to be real bad. And if you look at a chart of this, this is like a new version of real bad. The year is not...the season...wildfire season is not yet through. And it is already about six times...five to six times worse than any of the past like seven years. So, even as compared to the new normal, this is no longer...We already passed the new normal. In Yellowknife, Canada, 22,000 people were evacuated separately. That's in the Northwest Territories. Separately, 30,000 households in British Columbia have been evacuated. Drought is fucking up the Panama Canal. Remember we had that whole like boat that got stopped in the canal and everyone was like kind of happy about it even though we knew it was bad. Remember that a couple years ago?
Brooke 44:19
Yeah, that was pretty funny.
Margaret 44:19
Yeah. And we all like started paying a little bit more attention to how the Panama Canal was like where like 40% of the goods delivered to the east coast of the United States from Asia go through the canal, for example. It's just like one of the absolute main shipping routes in this world, right? And like 80% of international shipping or something like that happens by these like massive boats full of cargo containers. So drought is fucking that the Panama Canal because the Panama Canal doesn't actually...I always just imagined it as like, "Well, you dig a hole and then the ocean fills it," right? That's like kind of how a canal works in my head. That's not how a canal works. A canal works through a system of locks. It's Like steps for boats. And you have to like fill the thing and then...And the locks are getting filled from a lake named Gatun Lake. And it's a rainfall filled lake that is used to fill it. This is the second driest year in 143 years of record keeping for Panama, which is normally the world's fifth wettest country. So this is not the kind of thing that Panama normally worries about. And the record heat is evaporating that lake and the lack of rainfall is causing it. So, what's happening is that they've had to lower the maximum weight for ships and they've had to reduce the number of ships that can come through in an effort to conserve water. This means that tons of cargo containers are getting like offloaded and then taken by train across the country. It just fucking everything up. If there's a...if your car is at the shop, and it's been there for months and they have been like, "Oh, we don't know when the part is going to arrive." It might be because of this kind of shit. And one of the things that this makes me really think about is that people tend to think about the crises that are like really unique to their areas. They're like, "Oh, I don't worry about hurricanes. I live in Los Angeles. I worry about earthquakes." right? Well, welcome to hurricanes. And, "I don't think about drought. I live in Panama." Well, welcome to drought. I'm not trying to be blithe--or whatever the word is--here. And so like, I don't live in wildfire land, but there absolutely are a ton of wildfires on the East Coast. they have not yet overall hit the number of square mileage of fire as they do out west, but it is, frankly, worth thinking about shit that's exceptional. Okay, so the other thing that
Brooke 46:52
Was that your baby rant?
Margaret 46:53
No, I'm about to do the baby rant. I'm trying to figure how to like work my way into the baby rant.
Brooke 46:59
She's gearing up for it, folks.
Margaret 47:01
I watched a Tiktok video where it was talking about like masking, for example, and talking about how like, people don't want to mask because they want to get back to normal, and the person is just like, "Look, you have to mourn the old world." We have to say, there is a time that we grew up in that is not present anymore. We are not in a pre Covid world. We will never again be in a pre covid world. There are certain things that will have to change. And I'm not saying no more shows, or no more large gatherings, or whatever. But like, there are things that we're going to have to take into consideration that we didn't used to have to take into consideration, and our math will change. I will be wearing a mask in grocery stores for the conceivable future. This is not a major problem. Literally, the only problem is that people stare at me, but people stare at me anyway. So I don't give a shit. And I'm not telling people what to do or not do about this kind of math. But like, we have to mourn a world that doesn't exist. And so one of those things, I think it is very useful--Brooke and I were talking about this a little bit before we came on to record--that, like, people...this is the summer where people are starting to get it. This is the summer where people are like, "Oh, climate disaster's here. We cannot ignore it." A larger percent of people are incapable of ignoring climate disaster. And, it's like leading to all these effects--and now I'm just saying what Brooke told me about...Brooke, I don't want to it take away from you. You wanna talk about it?
Brooke 48:31
No, I like your recap.
Margaret 48:33
So, people in Los Angeles, like, took evacuations seriously. Or, people in Southern California took evacuation seriously. And it's quite possibly because of this shift of perception, this shift of understanding that disasters are part of our lives. And so one of the things I believe, that this is an argument for "Preparedness now has to be part of our lives." And if you're listening to this show, you're probably on some level into this idea. But, I was thinking about like, okay, you know, I have a big old chud truck that I was making fun of people for, right? And I know not to drive it through floodwater if you don't have proper training. I don't have proper training. Maybe I should have proper training, right? There are kinds of decisions that we need to make that are...We can't make them based on the old world. We have to base them on the real world, the current world, including what we want to do with our lives. And so this is my argument for wildland firefighters are fucking heroes. And there are anarchists and there's queer women and there's like all kinds of people who do wildland firefighting, and are like working on de-bro-ing this environment. And it is a hard thing to do. And I'm not...I'm not personally quitting my job to go out and do this and I'm not telling people what to do, but when we think about like, "What do we want to do with our lives?" we need to think about what we want to do with our lives based on the new paradigm and not the old paradigm. And so, maybe with the tech bubble collapsing, you want to think about vet school instead. Or maybe you want to get into wildland firefighting or maybe, you know, like...Look, farmer is a pretty fucking sick job. And I don't know. That's my, that's my mini rant. I don't entirely know where to go with it. I'm just thinking about how like, we should figure out how to be people who are helping because there's a set of crises and we should be thinking about what we are doing to be people who make this world better, and how to mitigate the worst of the crises that are happening, and how we can use our voices and how we can use our skills. You know, do the things that play to your skills. Like if you're an artist, there's so many groups that need flyers and shit, you know? And if you're a...whatever, if you're a party planner, you can throw fundraisers. If you're a bookkeeper, actually, the world fucking needs you way more than...People are like, "Oh, I'm a bookkeeper. I can't become a radical. What am I going to do?" And you're like, "Well, you can do bookkeeping for radicals. We fucking need it." That's my rant. I'll take comments on it before I go into the next section.
Inmn 51:32
My only comment is--because I wasn't aware that you could do this and I think it's really cool--did y'all know that you can start your own firefighting, like wildland firefighting collective?
Margaret 51:45
Wait, really?
Inmn 51:47
Yeah, I know. I know multiple people who have started wildland firefighting collectives, and you can work with people you know and care about, you can, like, get...I mean, it's like funding through the same places that other, that private companies get. So it's like from...like, a lot of it's from government grants, like, whatever.
Margaret 52:09
It's from the people who have money. We should get their money. I'm not gonna...Anyway, sorry. Yeah.
Inmn 52:15
Yeah, but it's just like a wild thing I didn't know you could do. I was like, "Wait, that's not illegal." And then I was like, "Yeah, you can just do that. You can start a firefighting collective."
Margaret 52:27
Fuck yeah. Even like cityish ones are often volunteer. And they're bro-y. But, as someone who I once cared about put it, "No one becomes a firefighter because they want to hurt people." This is to compare it from the bro-y culture of firefighters to the bro-y culture of cops, you know?
Inmn 52:50
Yeah.
Margaret 52:52
Okay, that's what I got for climate shit. You want to talk about the rise in anti-LGBT violence?
Brooke 53:01
No, I don't.
Margaret 53:03
Okay.
Brooke 53:04
But I should know what's going on in the world.
Margaret 53:07
Yeah, so I'm going to talk about three events from the past month, and then Inmn is going to deep dive one of them. On July 31, so since we did our last recording, O'Shea Sibley was a 28 year old Black gay man, was a professional dancer and a choreographer, who, he and his friends were playing Beyonce in a gas station in Brooklyn and they were like voguing, and a group of men came up to harass them, and they defended themselves against this group of men. And O'Shea was stabbed and killed. And I'm very grateful that this grabbed national media attention, you know? And it's awful that it happened. I'm glad that people are noticing and paying attention to this kind of thing happening. In Minneapolis, on August 11th, six people were injured and one person was killed at a punk house called Nudieland. There was a punk show. There was 30 to 50 people at the show. And the best information that I have--this has hit mainstream news--but this is like more...When I say "Our scene," I don't assume the listener is inherently a punk, but this is like the scene that I'm from and a lot of my friends were very close to August Golden, the person who died. The best information I have is that two people showed up, were turned down by women who called, like by women who are like "No, I'm queer. Fuck off." you know? August maybe ask them to leave the place. They came back and they started shooting. And, August Golden was 35 and is remembered as one of the kindest people that has ever been put on this earth. Once again, killed for standing up against bigotry, you know? September 18th...September 18? What month is it right now? August 18th, Lauri Anne Carlton was a straight white 66 year old woman who owned a clothing store called Magpie in the Glen, which is in Cedar Glen, California, which is outside of San Bernardino, which is outside of Los Angeles. I don't know shit about Southern California. So, I always have to put in all of the, "It's outside of, which is outside of..." And, she like put little Pride flags in her...in like pots and stuff outside of her store, and people kept tearing them out. So, she just went and got a bigger Pride flag and she put it up. Because she's fucking awesome.
Brooke 55:49
Great so far. Can we end there?
Margaret 55:52
[staggered pause] She gets killed.
Brooke 55:57
Fuck.
Margaret 55:58
Sorry, I didn't know you didn't...I apologize. I just wanna talk about how amazing she was before I talk about the violence that ended her life. She had spent like 15 years as an executive at Kenneth Cole, at like a fashion design place, and then was just like, "Fuck it, I'm going to like own these small clothing stores." And a small...Like, she would like, when a blizzard hit the area, which is, again, not a normal thing in that area, right, she converted her store into a relief center with her husband, and just it turned into a free store to make sure that everyone had what they needed. And so she was an ally, but she was an ally like...I'm actually really...I don't mean to discredit...Hm, how do I want to say this? We need allies. We need allies like we need allies in a war, right? Like, France-can't-stand-alone-against-the-Nazis kind of allies is what we fuckin need. And that's what she was. People kept ripping down her Pride flag. So, she kept putting up larger ones. And, a right-wing Christian nationalists named Travis Ikeguchi, who posted lots of antiabortion, antisemitic, and antiLGBT stuff on social media and Gab, who followed Jordan Peterson and Matt Walsh, who believed that Michelle Obama was a man, and denied climate change. He went missing the day before the shooting. And then he showed up and he started yelling at Lauri for having this flag, and she refused to take it down. Or,I think maybe he had ripped it off and she had confronted him or something like that. So, he shot and killed her. And she was a mother of nine. One of our listeners was friends with one of her friends. When I posted about this, someone messaged me about it. And yeah, I like...There has been a rise in anti-LGBT violence. There was a lot of it in June that got...A lot of different LGBT groups put together, like basically calling a state of emergency as this like rise of violence. You know, because there has been all this really extreme anti-us rhetoric. The thing I want to say about it is that we don't come from cowardly backgrounds as queer people, right? We don't come from people who...we didn't get where we have gotten by fear. And it has never been safe to be us and that has never stopped us from being us. And it will never stop us from being us. Even more than like, you can be like, "Oh, you can kill the anarchist, but you'll never kill anarchism," or whatever. Like, after World War II, they had killed so many fucking anarchists that it kind of...we weren't around for a little while on a national stage. It is impossible to destroy queerness. We've always been here. We will always be here. And the thing that I always keep harping on is that courage isn't the absence of fear. It's the presence of bravery. You know, there are things to be afraid of. I think and this is not...I think that the way that we get out of this as safely as possible is to not hide, is to not go back into closets, is to not--and I'm not saying like take stupid risks, or whatever. Everyone's gonna balance this differently. Like I don't walk around in a Pride flag shirt where I live. I mean, people can tell I'm queer. But like, I think overall when I say we need allies, we need allies. Like, this should not be a reason to take down your Pride flag, this should be a reason for more people to put up Pride flags. And and that's not safe and there's not...I'm not saying everyone in every situation should do it, you know?
Brooke 1:00:25
Yeah, I get that. Every year for June since it's Pride month--not to give into the commercialization of it, but because I love the excuse--I deck out my house and my front yard in Pride...like I have a little bunting banners that go along my front fence and find the small Pride flags that go with everything in the yard. I usually do something in my window and like it's just the most rainbowy ass house, but I also know that like three doors down there's like a chud gang of motorcyclists, you know, right-wing...extreme, right wingers as well. And as much as like my house makes me smile, I always worry that, you know, them or one of their cohort is going to, you know, come possibly fuck me up or fuck up my house because of the rainbowiness of it. And, it's a weird line to walk for sure.
Inmn 1:01:17
Yeah. Oof. Margaret, I don't really have much to actually add to the to the Nudieland shooting, except that there--and maybe we'll link to some of these in the show notes--but there's a lot of GoFundMe's for folks who are, who survived the Nudieland shooting and for folks' support networks, for people like August's partner, and, you know, various other people who were, who were impacted from being there, like providing support for people who were injured there. And, yeah, yeah, check some of those things out. And also, just to note that the...Like, the narrative coming out of it, like to the best of people's guesses, of like the reasons for the shooting as being these like queerphobic motivated shooting is being incredibly underreported on, even though this is an event that gained like national media attention. The fact that--and stuff it seems like people have been saying from the start--that it was this queerphobic instigated violence is...that's not the part that's being reported on in the national media. And I think that's, you know, I'm not surprised. But, I think that's something that we should all be thinking about is...I mean, everyone knows this. I feel like I'm preaching to the choir here, that like the national news media outlets, they under-report and don't properly contextualize events that happen. And, yeah, that's...that's what I have to say about that.
Margaret 1:03:31
And I'll say that, one of the things, that is a skill that we are learning as a community that I never would have expected us to specifically need to learn 20 years ago, is we're learning community defense. And we are learning what it looks like to have present security, armed and otherwise, at events. This doesn't solve all problems. But, it is a thing that we can do, that we can do to take agency, is learn self and community defense. And learning the skills to...I mean, like, sometimes community defense like...a couple years ago, there was a--I don't want to like name the city--but there was a there was a city and there was a show and there was a bunch of young queers that were not political at the thing. And some guy showed up--and everyone survives this story, to be clear--and this guy showed up and was like, pissed off that he couldn't dance with the queer ladies, or whatever, and got run out. And he came back and he shot at the house. And then after that, the local radical queer community showed up and hung out for a week or so, ready in case this person shows up, not to looking to instigate, just literally looking to help people feel safe in their homes, you know? And like, I think community defense, much like wildland firefighting, much like a lot of other things is like the kind of thing that's worth looking into, you know? The most obvious like easiest to get involved with my things might be like drag defense, right, because these are some of the flashiest places where this kind of confrontation is happening. I would say if you're thinking about getting into community defense, if you're the kind of person who's like angry about all this stuff, this is probably not the best way for you to get involved. Or rather, if you are someone who has anger management issues, you know, become a medic instead. I don't know. You know, play to your strengths, not your weaknesses. And for doing community defense is like a very specific skill set in which machismo is the enemy. And not...like, just literally you will be worse at it. And there's...You should look into other things. I don't know why I'm rambling about this. I got two little positive news things I put down on my notes.
Inmn 1:06:30
Yay.
Margaret 1:06:35
Let's see. They're not...Well, one of them I'm really excited about. The lymes vaccine for humans is underway. They're in stage three trials this year. Pfizer's doing it. And I first noticed because I got an ad on Instagram, that was like, "Sign up for lymes volunteer duty," and I'm like, I'm probably not gonna, but that's fucking cool. I live somewhere where Lymes wrecks people, you know? Also, chronic fatigue syndrome research has taken a big step forward with, like, researchers have noticed a protein that is blocking cell energy production that is elevated in folks who have chronic fatigue syndrome. And some of the medical research that's coming out of Covid is causing a lot of people...like long Covid research is causing a lot of people who have had long viral infection things to be taken more seriously. And, like, increased research in those areas. And I'm excited about that. And I'm excited that the summer has woken people up. And I am excited that like with antiqueer stuff, like the reason that they...This is a backlash. This is not a...They are on the defensive, right? They had all of the power. Cis white hetero patriarchy had all the fucking power. And now they don't. They don't have all the power because we are fucking taking a lot of it back. And that scares them. And they're backed into a corner. And when you've backed your enemy into a corner, they turn violent. And that is just like, a part of life. But, it is a sign that we are winning. It doesn't always feel like it. But that is what is happening on that front. We are winning. This is their organized backlash against us. We are making substantial progress. Frankly, even with this current, you know...These news articles, catch headlines, but it's like, I don't know, anti-gay violence was fucking all over the place in the 90s. Like, and then before that in the 80s, well, that was systemic and genocide against gay men by medical neglect.
Brooke 1:08:58
It was like socially sort of--I don't wanna say socially okay--but like 80s and 90s, it was more like, "Yeah, well, that happens. It sucks. And it's bad and we shouldn't do it." And now it's like, "Whoa!" like there's more general social outrage I think amongst a broader section of people.
Margaret 1:09:17
At the anti gay violence?
Brooke 1:09:18
Yes. Now.
Margaret 1:09:21
Totally.
Inmn 1:09:22
Yeah. My little--you know, I wish that the fire didn't happen--but my one little positive point is about the Lahaina fire is that the majority of relief efforts were being carried out, and still are being carried out, by locals and not by the National Guard. Or by...Which you know, is like, it's like, terrifying on the side of like why isn't this like aid being done? But, it's awesome on the side of, you know, these communities know how to take care of themselves and we don't need the State.
Margaret 1:10:10
And so become someone who helps and that is not always direct, sometimes that is helping the people who are doing the direct work. Like in this example, you know, don't become someone who helps by flying to Hawaii and showing up and being like "I'm here to help," but instead make the connections with the people who are doing that and give them money You know? Well, this has been a pretty apocalypsey month.
Brooke 1:10:43
A little bit.
Margaret 1:10:44
We picked a good...it's a growth market, apocalyptic ranting. When I used to stand on the street corner with a the-sky-is-falling sign, everyone thought I was crazy. And turns out, they were right about that but not in the way they thought. Because the sign is correct.
Brooke 1:11:01
Now, they become patreon supporters and pick up zines [pronounced to rhyme with "tines"] to educate themselves
Inmn 1:11:07
I'm waiting....
Margaret 1:11:09
You're waiting for Brooke to learn how to pronounce zine right?
Inmn 1:11:13
Yeah. No, I'm waiting for like a meme. I'm waiting for the like, "In my day..." meme. And it's like, it's like the opposite. Like, "When I was a..." Like, I feel like our grandparents or whatever were like, "When I was a kid, I walked to school in 12 feet of snow..." and like how now it's gonna be like, "In my day, we had really moderate weather. And stuff was mostly fine."
Margaret 1:11:42
Yeah, totally. The Internet was reliable. Air conditioning units were sized in order to successfully keep houses cool. Alright, Grandma.
Brooke 1:11:56
I now want Io to illustrate all of these things for us.
Margaret 1:12:02
Oh, boy. Brooke, you gonna take us out?
Brooke 1:12:05
I should, but I have to go find the Thanks List. So somebody riff for me...
Margaret 1:12:15
If you like this podcast, then probably the most important thing is do the helpy thing, and do the "Get prepared," thing. And the other thing you can do is you can help support this podcast and help it happen. We pay our audio editors and we pay our transcriptionists. We have like a dream of one day paying the hosts. But, we figured like the people doing the shit work that doesn't get any like clout or attention, or whatever, probably deserve to get paid first. And so we pay those people and we pay those people with money that comes from you, dear listeners. It comes from our Patreon supporters. We have a Patreon at patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness. And if you sign up at $10 a month, we'll mail you a zine [Rhymes with "clean"] every month. It's like different cultural stuff. Some of its preparedness.
Brooke 1:13:03
A zine [rhymes with "Mine."
Margaret 1:13:03
Sorry, a zine [Rhymes with "Mine"] every month, because it's short for magazine. [Rhymes with "Mine"]
Margaret 1:13:15
Yeah, so you can sign up, and in particular...
Inmn 1:13:19
Oh, wait, wait. But, do you want to know another really fun way that you can support the publisher, strangers in a tangled wilderness, and this podcast?
Margaret 1:13:28
What is it?
Inmn 1:13:31
Come hang out with us tomorrow in Seattle! Because, we will be at the Seattle Anarchist Bookfair and you can buy books and zines [Rhymes with "mine"] from us tomorrow...as of when this episode comes out.
Margaret 1:13:47
Well actually, no matter when you listen...Whenever you're listening, we will be at the Seattle Anarchist Bookfair tomorrow
Brooke 1:14:01
Oh, I look forward to meeting so many of you in person. But, we do particularly want to thank our Patreon supporters, including Carson, Lord Harkon, Trixter, Princess Miranda, BenBen, anonymous, Funder, Jans, Oxalis, Janice & O'dell, Paige, Aly, paparouna, Milica, Boise Mutual Aid, theo, Hunter Shawn, SJ, Paige, Mikki, Nicole, David, Dana, Chelsea, Staro, Jenipher, Eleanor, Kirk, Sam, Chris, Micaiah, and Hoss. The. Dog.
Margaret 1:14:38
Hoss the dog!
Brooke 1:14:44
Thanks, everybody. See you next time.